FAQs about impacted wisdom teeth.

Hey Plato,

Just reaching out..., I'm running into obstacles a little bit and I would appreciate any feedback, Feeling a little bit exhausted and disappointed from today, I went to 3 consultations, and ran into the same roadblock, yet again...

Just real quick, I've been talking to Kevin Courtois since November of last year, and he's been guiding me along, I got the face pulling appliance from him and I've been face pulling for a month now and seeing some tangible positive results. I'm even a client of his on ascension energy program. Anyway..

I'm running into a lot of hurdles with this palate expansion process, specifically finding the right orthodontist, It's been taking me well over 5 months now. Going to countless consultations...very exhausting process to say the least... requiring a great deal of patience.

I'm 23, I had ortho work done at age 18, in which they extracted 4 bicuspids (the first bicuspids to be exact), anyway I notice the symptoms of collapse face, and retracted mandible, I don't have TMJ & headaches, but plenty of self-conscious issues when it comes to my narrow dental arch, that no amount of positive thinking was able to resolve.

My goal is to regain the spaces for the 4 bicuspids that was extracted, and to build a fuller, broader dental arch/smile. To get the "ideal dental structure".

First I went to all the doctors providing the DNA appliance in my state, the treatment plan they came up for me was this. They told me they can get enough expansion on the upper palate for the bicuspids, but they do not think they can do the same with the bottom palate. They say that the upper palate is easy to grow bone, but the bottom palate is near impossible to grow bone, so to compensate for the upper palate expansion, they want to attach rubber bands to the upper appliance to the bottom appliance and pull the jaw forward. and then tilting the teeth upright (since mine is sort of tilting inward) to get the teeth to couple together. Without opening up the space for the bicuspids on the bottom.

I rejected this idea of pulling the lower jaw forward, because it seems unnatural, and like a compensation for lack of proper bottom arch development. And so that doctor referred me to a DAMON braces guy which I saw today, he basically stumbled on the same issue. He said he was comfortable getting growth in the upper arch and regain the 7mm space for the two bicuspids, but he was very worried he could get the same growth with the jaw, obviously if the jaw isn't able to expand in the same way I would have an overbite, as the upper palate expands past the jaw.

Some dentists, and orthos flat out tell me what I'm trying to accomplish is impossible, I refuse to accept that. I want to ask you, is what I am trying to do possible?

I live in Michigan, I'm starting to feel doubts as to if I am able to find an orthodontist in this state that can accomplish this task, Do you happen to know of any excellent orthodontists that may be able to do this case?

What would you say is the proper treatment protocol for my situation????

Thanks , I appreciate any and all feedback & insights.

Your case is very similar to mine. What you are trying to do is not impossible. Here is the thing: The orthos are correct that upper expansion is easy and lower is hard. For the lower, the jaw bone needs to remodel and grow. There are two ways to do this using lightwire forces, but they both take a long time:



The upper can be expanded sufficiently in 2 years. But for the lower to expand the same way, it may take 5. Most orthos would not be cool with you having brackets for 5 years. Since you are so young, what I would suggest is upper and lower ALFs which you can safely wear for years and nobody can see them. ALFs and face-pulling will not throw your life out of whack, and nobody will know what you are up to.

Once the expansion has taken place, then if you need braces or invisalign or some shit to straighten them out it will be quick. Your advantage is your youth. In my case, I started at 38 and I am 41 now. I use Damon with face-pulling and NCR, I also ran into the same problem that I could have gone bigger on the upper, but lower would need YEARS to catch up. But I was already wide enough (naturally I want wider lol) so my ortho and I gave up. Incidentally, he also used rubber bands to pull the jaw forward like your ortho was suggesting and to close my bite and it worked. So don't be scared of this technique. Running rubber bands in a zig-zag fashion to close the bite actually works like face-pulling but downwards. You could take this route and it would work because it is what I did. But since you are so young, you may want to be adventurous and wear ALFs for 5 years or so?

I know it is frustrating, because most orthos are not open, don't know, or don't give a shit. I went through the same drama but got really lucky in the end.

I see, there's one office in Michigan that provides ALF, and there's a good chance they may deny my case. I have a consultation scheduled with them anyway but unfortunately it's 3 weeks away.

You can get expansion without ALF or Damon though right? You're talking about to grow bone in the mandible, you need light wire forces?

I actually finally found an orthodontist that might have potential, he's the first one to agree that my smile could be better and that my arches can be expanded. He is all about facial aesthetics, he wrote articles on it and does lectures. He studied profiles and smiles of movie stars, beauty pageants, and even the Statue of David. He's about focusing on joints and bone first before looking at teeth. So all of these qualities make me really wanna work with this guy. I know at least in his hand, I'll be moving towards the right direction. as he begins to expand my arches.

As far as getting the 4 bicuspids back, I didn't get a definite answer, he himself said he won't know if I'll get enough space till I begin treatment. He mentioned there's also an option of pulling the molars forward, if I don't get enough space, to cover the spaces. But I will probably deny that protocol. I'm thinking about just going along with it for now, and just worry about that later. At least He will begin expanding me, while all other orthos and dentists just denied to even accept my case.

He wants to put a fixed appliance on my upper palate, and he thinks I'll get the necessarily expansion in 3 months. which is really fast, and I know Kevin warns about expanding too quickly. so this is something I still have to discuss with him. He saids in adults he uses a much gentler method, with a removable appliance. maybe I can be expanded quicker cause I'm still young?

For the lower palate, he uses a removable appliance shaped like a horse shoe, I think this is more about just uprighting the teeth and some expansion as far as moving the teeth outwards in the bone. I do not think, he is thinking about remodeling and growing the actual mandible itself.

At this point, I'm not sure If I'll ever find an orthodontist that's willing to do that for me in this area, a process that takes 5 years... I even thought about moving at some point to accomplish what I want. At this point, I'm pretty dead set on doing what ever necessarily for this process.

But I know I can get a lot of improvement still with this orthodontist, as far as getting an expanded arch... I may begin working with him and just have him take me as far as he can take me...

oh and one question. If I wear a fixed appliance on the upper palate, like what this orthodontist is offering or if I wear something like the ALF on the upper. How will I continue to do face pulling. because I assume my removable hawley-like appliance I'm using right now for face pulling won't fit anymore.

Keep me posted, all appliances can be modified for face-pulling. :)

You might find this video interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Hz53pHSEI

Near 8:50, Dr. Mew(the guy in the video who's the creator of orthotropics) begins talking about the importance of the maxilla and how it has to be brought forward to create good facial aesthetics.

They have come up with a brand new way of orthodontics for children in which they develop the jaws instead of moving teeth. More specifically they bring the maxilla forward in children, and this had a profound effect on the final result as far as creating a more beautiful, attractive faces in kids.

This site has many profound, comparison pictures: http://www.orthotropics.com/

I have a consultation scheduled with an orthodontist in Michigan that studies this new way of orthodontics from Dr. Mew, and he also knows Dr. Hang from Face Focused, the guy from California that is well known for reopening extraction sitesin adults, this guy apparently has people flying in from all over the place. I luckily found him because he's the only guy in Michigan that carries the ALF appliance, he just so happens to know Dr. Hang from California and is being mentored byDr. Mew so I am hoping he understand what I understand about the importance of Maxilla and the profound effect it has when it is brought forward.

Apparently they only see surgery as the only option once the kid has matured and the kid has had the wrong orthodontic work done, and the face grew vertical instead of horizontally, and the face collapsed.

The big difference I see in kids that received traditional orthontic work versus kids that got orthotropics, is that the mandible, of the lower jaw is more stronger looking and prominent in kids that got orthotropics, versus the weak looking chins that kids who had extraction and had everything brought back.

Well I have certain characteristics of a vertical face instead of horizontal, and my mandible seems retracted a little bit? the chin looks sort of weak. Since I had extractions..etc.

I wish you had before and after pictures on your face pulling site from a side view. Because I want to know what happens to the mandible? I mean if a kid had everything brought back and has a receeded, weak looking chin then does face pulling alone bring the mandible forward and make it stronger looking over time? Or maybe the mandible didn't grow to it's potential because things were fucked up at a young age.

Fortunately I had orthontic work done at age 18, so I was already done growing for the most part, and so my growth wasn't drastically altered by orthodontics, and I don't have that extreme symptoms of collapsed face.

The front view of before and after picture of you, Kevin, and especially Ian (was he's result after 2 years?) is really profound. I mean you guys look totally different and like your moving towards the direction of super man like faces like Kevin was saying.

anyway, just sharing this orthotropic stuff because it's right on the money with face pulling theories. I feel it's the future of orthodontics? Anyway I've been face pulling for 2 months now and I'm seeing improvements so it's exciting :)

Attached is my before-and-after profile. You can clearly see the maxilla coming significantly forward in a 40 year-old male over a 2 year period. You can also see that the lower jaw came forward with it, and while you cannot see the overbite correction in this picture, you can see it on my other pictures. So any ortho who says it cannot be done, they can suck it... lol

Wow, I really like seeing the profile view of the changes. Awesome results!


just a small concern regarding face pulling, just in case you ran into the same problem or know of anyone else, I'll ask anyway.

I'm using a removable retainer-like appliance with a lip built at the back for the back molars. This is just my recent discovery is that if I use the same rubber bands and start pulling, I noticed that the right side always gets more pressure exerted on it versus the left. This is due to the fact that my molars on the right side come out of the gum more than the left and that lip of the retainer is able to "grip" or "grab hold of" the molar a lot better than the left side, the left molar has more gum around it there for the lip is not able to exert as much pull force on that molar. given the same exact pull force with the rubber bands.

Anyways, I seem to be able to compensate for this by pulling harder on the left side(the side with less molar exposed for pulling) versus the right. Like If I hold the two rubber bands in my hands and begin pulling them, If I pull on the left side more than the right, I seem to be able to pull on the maxilla evenly. Anyway one of the reason I started suspecting this was because over the course of last 2 months I think unknowingly I've been always pulling more on the right side, I noticed that my right cheek bone has been coming out more than the left side. And all the time during sessions, I recall that I felt more pull force on the right side, which I would try to balance by adjusting the angles and what not so that I was pulling more on the left.

Last few sessions though, I've been using stronger rubber bands on the left side so I begin pulling harder on the left side versus the right, so I can get the left cheekbones can catch up to the right one... Just by placing my hands on the side of the face, I can tell that my right cheek bone has come out a lot more than the left. Just in the last few sessions alone since I started doing this, I think I'm noticing the left cheekbones come out a little bit and beginning to catch up to the right side.

So right now I'm pulling harder on the left side to try and compensate for the fact that last 2 months I've been pulling harder on the right.

Is what I'm doing okay? Do you have to often feel one side being puller more than the other, and constantly adjust during your sessions? Sort of like a balancing act in a way...

Side note: I noticed a small popping noise develop in the right jaw when I would open my jaw mouth real big, interestingly as soon as I started pulling more on the left side, that clicking noise disappeared... Almost as if that clicking was caused by the fact that the right side was being pulled more than the left.

If you have never encountered this problem, then I understand you wouldn't have any insights into this. I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask anyways, just in case what I'm doing is... no good, then I should find out now then months down the road.

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